Abandoned Codex Forum Index Abandoned Codex
The Abandoned Codex Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Current idea/feedback requested.
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Codex Forum Index -> Ramblings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:21 pm    Post subject: Current idea/feedback requested. Reply with quote

Now, i've talked to a few people about this concept for an area that would consist of class specific armor.

I.E. Boots for a warrior might be 30ac, 10dr, 90hp
Boots for a ranger might be 20ac, 7hr/dr, 30hp/mana

Now, my concern is that it may all sound good but the topic of pkilling comes up.

I may be basing this off the mmorpgs i've played but, a warrior should be a meat-shield, a thief should be massive damage, a ranger should be a bit of both.

Now, the issue is with these item pieces, i'll be inclined to follow these guidelines in the sense that thieves might accumulate 200ac, 200hp +100hr, 50dr from their full set of equipment where as a warrior will recieve 600ac, 500hp, +50hr, +30dr.

Thus giving the advantage for pking to thieves...

Any input on a solution is welcomed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DethanStormblade



Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

since I played the same game you're basing off somewhat, I can comment. Firstly, a thief, head to head with a trained warrior in gaming or real life would generally lose. A warrior being jumped by a thief however is different. Basically, each class is designed around "circumstances". Ideal cirumstances for a thief is ambushing, flanking, etc etc. But when a warrior engages a thief face to face, no question, a trained, heavily armored and disciplined warrior would win.

On the same token, a mage facing a warrior in most fantasy RPG's doesn't stand a chance. All these things have to be taken into consideration, although when it comes to any type of online game, it is exceedingly hard to strike that perfect balance. I offer my help to ya bro, since I know the effect you're trying to go for, but some tweaking would have to happen to make it work smoothly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Wedge



Joined: 31 Mar 2003
Posts: 89
Location: Hendrix College

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:13 am    Post subject: sldkfj Reply with quote

It all sounds good on paper, but once you hit what? 500AC is stop mattering? Hitroll has a cap as well I think, but I can't remember what it is. Basically any class in the game can achieve the AC cap with eq in the game. If you're talking about changing all the eq in the game, I'd say that's too big of an endeavor. I think the effect you're wanting, is to make it necessary to group. I've played FFXI too. So far, the best person I've seen accomplish this is Nightblade in his Thieves Guild area. In order to successfully beat some of the harder mobs in his area, you have to have a thief, a ranger, and a warrior. Next, someone will just have to try to figure out how to make mages useful.
_________________
-Wedge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Nightblade
Mud Admin


Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wedge, quiet, you're giving away my plots for my next area!!!! (Mages being useful, that is.)

Anywho, yea, the ac cap pretty much kills the idea of making warriors meat shields through armor, but that doesn't mean you can't do it through hp. Also, I coulda sworn hitroll had something to do with avoiding hits......I dunno, it was a long time ago and it had an involved equation that really wasn't appetizing to my head. But like here's my intelligent thought. If you want a balance where warrior is the meat shield and thief is the damage output master, you're going to want ratios of more like, no armor for the thief, but + a large amount of damroll, and very very little hp. Warrior will get enough armor that he'd likely hit ac cap even with crap eq, and tons of hp, but limited damroll. Yea, I know, my examples are a bit extreme, but well...there ya go. That's about as near balanced you're ever going to get.
_________________
"Eye level for a kender is door-lock height for the same reason a chipmunk has extra cheek space."

"A kender will take anything that's not nailed down, and a kender with a good claw hammer will get those things too"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:27 am    Post subject: re: Reply with quote

What is the ac cap btw? -350 or so?

It does put a huge damper on things. :/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Palermo



Joined: 07 Jun 2003
Posts: 87
Location: Conway, AR

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Nightblade about the ac thing. Hp could take the place of the ac cap. Now, I don't really think the stats on the items would have too big of a difference between rangers/warriors/thieves/and vamps. But what about the other classes? Would giving a bunch of mana to a mage or druid _really_ help it? It would just let it cast another weak ass spell. I think that the magic using classes would be at a sore disadvantage compared to the other classes... And as far as other RPG's go - at least the ones i've played - mages kick the crap out of any other class. The problem with the mud enviroment is that you have to actually get close to someone to hurt them. Mages are casting fireballs at people right next to them... heh ah well.. I'm totally off the subject but oh well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the ability to overcharge kinda takes away the usefullness for mana on casters. Also, they do do very minimal damage to what they should. Perhaps mages and warwizards can get upgraded versions to their spells at 65 and at 85 again. Like Fireball -> Inferno -> Burning Wrath at 85, maybe costing 2x as much mana as the previous one but increasing the damage 2x off each level. So Inferno would do 2x what Fireball does but Burning Wrath would do 2x what Inferno did.

This is off topic, yeah, but mages do suck Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Retribution



Joined: 03 Apr 2003
Posts: 8
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: My own thoughts Reply with quote

My thoughts:

-----------------------------------------------------
On Alucard's equipment idea:
1) I would hate to see one area have all or even most of the best equipment for people.

2) It seems that this equipment would take the place of quest points for a lot of people who have achieved high stats through roleplay or slaughter. That would be unfair.

3) The problem with all very powerful equipment is that no matter how hard it is to get, after a while, people will get it and have a surplus to give to new Avatars. That is unrealistic and unfair.
-----------------------------------------------------
On mages and cleric spells:
1) Upping spell damage sounds like a good idea but would it really help? After a time, the mage class would be like all the others -- attacks and health. Instead of trying to get the classes to be alike, why not stress the differences.

2) For example: another idea might be to dramatically reduce the scrolls, potions, and items that grant spells when worn in the world. Thus, a cleric or mage would be highly needed in any group of adventurers. As it is now, anyone can get most spells mages and clerics cast from scrolls or potions. Combine that with mages and clerics not being powerful spell-fighters and you get a wasted class.
-----------------------------------------------------

-Retribution
_________________
-=Long Live The Fighters=-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1) I would hate to see one area have all or even most of the best equipment for people.


How many pieces of equipment on average, from Xchantharus do people wear? I can think of roughly 4 or 5 pieces of their equipment is occupied by items from this zone.

Quote:
2) It seems that this equipment would take the place of quest points for a lot of people who have achieved high stats through roleplay or slaughter. That would be unfair.


That may be the case, but I feel you're speaking mostly for yourself in this case. I, myself have a lot of quest obtained items and i'm willing to accept that there could be better out there. Hell, I even remember Vicks saying something along the lines of... "Half of my quested equipment could be replaced with items that drop out there now." Now, that was like a few months ago... (It might've been Norik who said this actually.)

Quote:
3) The problem with all very powerful equipment is that no matter how hard it is to get, after a while, people will get it and have a surplus to give to new Avatars. That is unrealistic and unfair.


The vision Gareth and I have come across has it so that these items only drop maybe once a week on average due to nesting within mob death programs. For example: The zone could house 75 mobs that drop the gear but, they could have a program that goes like this "1% of the time when I die, i'll run this program... now within this program i'll do a random 1 - 100 again and I need a 1% chance again to actually pop the item." Also, the zone might be up to 4 hours to respawn... Though, sometimes people might get lucky with drops... other times they could go weeks without getting one Wink


Note: None of this is set in stone... it can all change. I could alter something from what Retribution has said or through possibilities within mobs themselves... it's all up in the air right now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Saul



Joined: 29 Mar 2003
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 6:03 am    Post subject: on the proposed area... Reply with quote

I would like to first say that I think it is great that you are putting in this much thought and work into making Abandoned Codex a better place for everyone. -Thank you

As for the idea in and of itself, I have labeled these comments in number order following the above note.


1. Xchantharus is a huge area which is beautifully written, and is around 3-4 areas in and of itself. To compare this area to others, which are on average about 3-4 times smaller, does nothing to explain why the proposed area should have so much equipment.

To add another piece of equipment from your new area would be grand, but why not make 3 to 4 more areas and have an added total of 3 new pieces of equipment for the 3-4 new areas combined? This would give the world more depth to adventure and explore in.


2. I think what is being expressed here, is that with very tough equipment, it would make much work done by people through qping up there dam role/ hit points/ mana points, or by participating in quests to get qps to do these things, worthless.

For example, an av that spent 10 k qps alone on getting there hit points up, which is a considerable amount of time, would get the raw deal by another av just getting the equipment from your proposed area with that many hit points in it. In this way, it would make all of the work that player did to qp up their stats, worthless, as any new av with connections could get a gift of the equipment from the new area and end up with the same amount of stats.

Concerning quest obtained equipment, if you look around the world, this type of equipment is very, very scarce. So to speak for yourself, with your equipment, which is very rare, and the couple of pieces of equipment out there that have been gotten from quests, is doing a disservice to all that just have "stock" equipment. In fact, isn't this stock equipment hard enough to get? And concerning the small amount of quest equipment that is out there, isn't this equipment supposed to only be mildly tougher than the "stock" equipment so as to not throw the world off to much?


3. I would have to say, that this idea of having VERY tough equipment, also VERY hard to get, is ludicrous. I view the Abandoned Codex core idea as one in which players can spend time on their characters and build them up. Equipment like this which is so hard to get and so tough when it is gotten will totally destroy this idea behind Abandoned Codex.

It will make all of the hard work people have put into their characters worthless, if not destroying many people's fun of playing this mud.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gareth
Admin 2


Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 525

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take on the qp-earned vs special eq thing is:
In principle, I'm against the philosophy of really hard eq that's difficult to get, because as someone's pointed out before (in as many words) is that once you've managed to get one of a special item, it's not that much harder to get ten of them and pass them to your mates. Bang, instant stat inflation.

What I'm in talks with Alucard about at the moment, however, is a system similar to the 'Epic Item' quests in Evercrack, which is like a sort of 'final test' thing for your class, which takes several weeks or months of hard work to get, and there's only one you can wear, and only you can wear it.

'course, we won't be able to implement this fully until I get extended bitvectors sorted out. ho hum. :/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saul - basically I can sum up your response to - "Those of us with no lives, who have qp'd every day of our lives will get screwed by people who want to enjoy the game further than qping." Xchantharus is pretty shittily written in terms of the "proper" writing style.

Gareth - The items won't be based off "now that I have it, it'll make it easier to get". In some aspects, yes, having the gear will make you more powerful but it won't make it easier for the items to appear. The way the equipment pops would be so scarce it would only pop because of the game itself once a week if you're lucky.

I ran a program while I was building the other day which looked like this:

rand_prog 1
if rand(1)
say ive spawned boss 1
endif
if rand(1)
say ive spawned boss 2
endif
if rand(1)
say ive spawned boss 3
endif


Now, through my entire 12 hours or so the mob only spawned 12 or so bosses during that entire time. Now, given the fact that random programs go off like every second... that's f'in rare. Now, put that into a death program where there's a limited amount of mobs in the zone... that's ungodly rare.


I do like the idea of spreading it throughout many areas, though. So, one equipment slot could drop in one zone where another drops in a different one. But, that also takes the "now that I have the pieces of equipment from this area, I don't want to go help others get it."


Also, another point: Saul, you'll still get the bonus of having your qps when you get the items and also qping to put yourself up to par with those that have the equipment. Basically saying you take the alternate method to reaching "uberness" than others have. There shouldn't be one set way to become a really wicked character but multiple.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Saul, the same thing can be said about "gifts when you av"

Say you didn't have Visions of Chaos but had a monacle. There's a big difference there, right? If I were to give Visions of Chaos to Dethan he'd be so many "qp points" advanced into your reasoning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alucard
Avatar 2


Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Posts: 28
Location: Canada, eh

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, Saul, I do thank you for your appreciation towards my cause Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nightblade
Mud Admin


Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 343
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the whole, "it'll screw over us who qped a ton" thought. Just because you have over say, 50k qps, you suddenly aren't able to get off your ass and go get the eq that will somehow come instantly to brand new avs? WTF are you people blathering about. YOU'LL have an easier time of obtaining the eq because you're stronger already. Yea, I know a lot of this eq obtaining is going to be based on luck/time and while strength IS important, it's not going to be vital. But you have an advantage THERE too. You've qped for a huge amount of qp. Thus, you're probably the type of person who can spend days at a time sitting in this area.
_________________
"Eye level for a kender is door-lock height for the same reason a chipmunk has extra cheek space."

"A kender will take anything that's not nailed down, and a kender with a good claw hammer will get those things too"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Abandoned Codex Forum Index -> Ramblings All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group

Chronicles phpBB2 theme by Jakob Persson (http://www.eddingschronicles.com). Stone textures by Patty Herford.